If you read my response below, toward the bottom, that covers much of it. I think there are certain people who are activists, intentionally using the divisions in our Church, the backbiting and verbal quarreling to discredit the TLM. I think it's a continuation of Traditionis custodes in a political form. As I mentioned below, all a person needs to do is to watch for the keywords being pushed by the Left in politics. They push the labels such as extremists, radicals, etc., to sway public opinion. The Catholics in the Novus Ordo are misled, they shouldn't be our enemy, but if those who want to destroy the Latin Church, can make us enemies by using our words against us, they get the job done. We're letting them do it by responding in the wrong way to their accusations and even in our criticisms of other Catholics. Although what we see happening can infuriate us, we need to stop brutalizing each other and start winning them over before they get turned against us.

@The Wandering Recluse "...I am concerned about the confidences of the Virgin to the little Lucia of Fatima. This persistence of the Good Lady in face of the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that the alteration of the Faith, in its liturgy, its theology, and its soul, would represent..." - (1933) Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, Secretary of State to Pope Pius XI- Pius XII’s "Prophetic Warnings about Fatima and the “Suicide” of Altering the Faith in its Liturgy" 1 Peter 5 Pius XII’s Prophetic Warnings about Fatima and the “Suicide” of Altering the Faith in its Liturgy

Thank you for your comment! First of all, I want to thank you for the compliment when you called me an example of the “Trad” that Father Nix talks about.

At the same time, it doesn't seem right to attribute to me the comparison of Catholics to toilet paper. This was not in my post and I would never compare Catholics to anything unworthy. Moreover, I did not compare with toilet paper even the modernists and liberals who wrote in the two editions under discussion (Communio and Consilium), who can hardly be classified as Catholics, and who, due to their hostility to the Catholic Faith and the Church, deserve even much harsher epithets (which I did not use in this post).

Further, the message of your comment is essentially that “we need to watch what we say.” Well, let me disagree with you. You propose not to give the enemies of the Faith and the Church the opportunity to label us (extremists, radicals, etc.), so that they cannot form a public opinion negative towards us. However, being nice, using politically correct language, and showing tolerance towards the enemies of the Faith and the Church will not lead to victory. They will form public opinion against us in any case, even if we speak to them in the sweetest language. I do not consider radicalism a matter of temperament, but I do consider it a matter of Faith. As Josemaría Escrivá said, holy intransigence is not bigotry. We see what happened when John XXIII declared that the “medicine of mercy” must now be used. This has led to exactly where we are now.

As Father Félix Sardá y Salvany rightly said in his book (and this book was approved by the Congregation of the Index itself): “If the propagation of good and the necessity of combating evil require the employment of terms somewhat harsh against error and its supporters, this usage is certainly not against charity… We must render evil odious and detestable. We cannot attain this result without pointing out the dangers of evil, without showing how and why it is odious, detestable and contemptible. Christian oratory of all ages has ever employed against impiety the most vigorous and emphatic rhetoric in the arsenal of human speech. In the writings of the great athletes of Christianity, the usage of irony, imprecation, execration and of the most crushing epithets is continual”.

And Saint Thomas Aquinas says: “when certain ones, by their perverseness, hinder the salvation of the multitude, the preacher and the teacher should not fear to offend those men, in order that he may insure the salvation of the multitude” (Summa Theologiae, 3, 42, 2).

I don't think you are right in your concerns about our enemies' desire to destroy the Latin Church and the TLM. Of course, they won’t be able to do any of this, although they will be able to marginalize us or even drive us underground. It seems obvious that we need to resist this conciliar sect with all our might and respond to each of their nasty articles in various apostate magazines with ten articles. There is no room for pleasantries, compromises, or even negotiations. Only a total and most severe confrontation with this sect can bring results. However, now, unfortunately, the reality is that, as the Virgin Mary warned in Akita, the Church is full of those who make compromises.

Well, of course, you are right when you talk about the need for prayer. We must pray for the conversion of heretics and schismatics, as well as for the liberation of the Church from the enemies entrenched in its bosom (not excluding Francis, of course).

@Denis Efimov Thanks for your comment as well. I don't have a lot of time to comment here, but I can sum up what I meant and you can take it or leave it.

Most of what you've written I completely agree with, I didn't say, nor would I ever even imply that we shouldn't tell the truth, even if it is taken as offensive. So I agree, being politically correct or somehow "bending" the truth or watering it down is useless, that isn't what I meant. There is a saying, "If the truth offends. the truth isn't where the problem is." And we live in a world where being offended is promoted.

I was referring to HOW many Catholics, including me at times, get infuriated and present the truth in the wrong way, especially to other Catholics. All one needs to do is read some of the comments on this site, right? Apologists have a rule they work by. It does no good if you tell the truth in such away that the seed you are attempting to plant for the Holy Ghost to water is demeaning or insulting, rude or condescending. The seed immediately falls on ground that will choke it before it even has a chance, regardless of the fact that it is the truth.

The whole idea is to persuade them to see your point by presenting the truth respectfully, not slapping them across the face with arrogance. Too many Catholics think "being nice" means weakness, strictly because someone coined the Novus Ordo as the "church of nice". It's not the same "nice".

I guess I will use your toilet paper example after all. If I approach a Catholic and say, your publication is disgusting and I wouldn't let my kids use it as toilet paper, do you suppose anything I say after that will be heard? Not a chance. So then, what's the point of saying it in the first place? What would I be hoping to gain, a sin of the tongue? Gratification? A feeling of superiority? You think I planted the possibility that they might convert?

And I'm not saying some don't deserve the shotgun treatment, okay? But why would the average NO catholic want to try a traditional Church if they believe it teaches their parishioners to be arrogant and rude? It's just logic.

Secondly, no, they will never destroy the true Church, but giving them ammunition to tear it apart makes no sense at all. Let's stand our ground by presenting the truth, but let's not lose our own soul in the process.

I hope this makes sense. Thanks for your time.

I agree with you that harsh language is not always helpful or appropriate. No one is suggesting converting people this way, or spitting on the modernists we meet. The choice of a specific style and language depends on many factors. Here we touched upon the issue of specific things - Communio and Consilium. And regarding these things, I simply expressed my personal opinion, whether anyone likes it or not. If I were to say, “these publications are not adequate to Catholic truth,” that would not be an accurate description of my attitude towards them. If I consider them disgusting garbage, dangerous to people and not worthy of being touched, then I say so. I do not think that this assessment of mine, if read by any wavering mind, will turn him away from the Catholic Tradition. And if we are talking about neophytes in the tradition, then it is better for them to initially know that heretics are heretics, and sodomites are sodomites, and garbage is garbage, than to first read muddy and soft texts and then find out the hard truth.